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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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people are rushing people are hashing

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people all over the street are pushing

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each other the ground and going my god

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it's time for the skipping zone and it

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is and here's Richard Saunders the man

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with the answers of the questions you

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don't know I don't even know the

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questions may not hmm how big is a

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chicken and will it fit in my recycling

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bin there we go that's again what do we

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got today but man it's a big number it's

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a big number for a big show it is this

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is the skeptic zone episode number 350 I

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think I need a rest hmm I think you need

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the race downstairs and get something

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I've got it I've got it right here

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exhale where it skeptics in the pub

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we're recording this intro at skeptics

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in the pub yes this is show 350 can't

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believe it for the fifth of July 2015

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it's Richard Saunders here with me night

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at skeptics in the pub waiting for the

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crowds to come in before the crowds come

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in we'll let you know what's coming up

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on this week's show I'm going to be

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speaking to Jax Kellen from Victoria

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he's involved with a new scientific

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outreach program very exciting always a

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fan of scientific outreach and we're

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going to be hearing an interview you did

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with Nicole Rogerson yes from autism

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awareness she's got some things to

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mention about her personal experiences

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with an autistic child and with the

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organization and the kind of people who

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suggest things to her that shall we say

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not evidence-based really really

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interesting interview I was there today

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while you're doing that interview the

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woo around autism may not that's scarier

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than well I imagine because there aren't

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as many answers as people would like

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that's where people try and fill the

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gaps absolutely and it's a classic case

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of magical thinking coming in and

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wishful thinking because it's a pretty

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traumatic thing for some parents I think

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also on this week's show we have a week

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in science as ever we have a week in

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science and some other things coming up

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I don't even know of yet because well I

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haven't recorded them okay well we're

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gonna have a big night here it's going

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to go bit crazy we've got the bar tab

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running and who knows what can go on the

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bar tab yea though I didn't know about

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this bar tab Maynard what's is bad you

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notice that you are life one credit card

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it's going to be a hell of a night

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people the drinks are on me I think it's

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time to run downstairs put as much as

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possible on Richards credit card and

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then leg it yes

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may not while your legging it I'm going

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here's Maynard spooky action at a

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it's a beautiful sunny morning here at

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the lizard Center in lancovit with

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Nicole Rogerson good morning men on you

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recently addressed the whole bunch of

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Australian skeptics in Sydney at a

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dinner there and gave them and talk that

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I believe the review was you wowed them

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well I hope I did because I assume that

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was skeptical about whether i would or

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not um there's people that going why

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would I boo no I'll hold up hold off the

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booing what was the topic what are you

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on about well my only topic is talking

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about autism so i think i was invited

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because of the amount of skepticism i

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guess around autism as a condition and

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the treatments for it and and some of

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the bigger issues let's back up a bit

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and of course you're the mother of

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naughty boy I am I have a 19 year old

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son on the autism spectrum and how's it

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going and and what was a what Bob way

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through your thoughts and how did you

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find out he was autistic in the first

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place as someone who has no kids knows

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very little about this area school me

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Nicole school me well I can't say it's a

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terribly proud story about diagnosis for

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Jack because I think it would have been

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obvious from the age of 2 that he wasn't

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developing like his peers were but to

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Ian and I my husband and I we were quite

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stupid and didn't say it didn't see the

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early warning signs so that's kind of

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one of the issues i'm a little bit

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passionate about showing parents what

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autism can look like because it's the

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early in early intervention that makes

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such a huge difference i imagine parents

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can be so paranoid about the health of

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their children they can imagine there's

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things there that aren't a lot the time

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as well I think it goes both ways I

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think you tend to have parents who

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minimize it and say no no I'm sure it's

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fine it's fine it's fine and then

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likewise other parents who who are

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looking at every developmental milestone

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and being very concerned if their

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children don't meet it I think our

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message is no one should panic what we

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should do is is look at a child around

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18 months to years of age if they're not

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reaching the developmental milestones we

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would be expecting that doesn't

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necessarily mean it's autism but it does

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mean we have to keep a bit of a close

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eye and pass the age of two we're going

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to start referring to other people and

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bring some specialists in to see what

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exactly we're looking at I remember when

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you named it jack

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that is a fantastic name that is that

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that's someone who puts that oil-rig

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fires and it is quick get Jack Rogerson

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do you know what he was named after Jack

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Ryan I'm sure the grandparents thought

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it was there but it wasn't it was named

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after jack ryan when that harrison ford

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movie yeah totally i but he's going to

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be President uh he might be he's done

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really well and when you discover that

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you have a child is on the spectrum at

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what point does the parent blame or the

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mother blame come into it and is that

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something that you usually put upon

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yourself or is that something that

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society or you think yeah where does

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that happen I think not to get too Oprah

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about it but I don't know we don't want

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that we don't want it no I what I do

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think happens and I've seen it not

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obviously just in myself but in the

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thousands of parents I've known with

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children on the spectrum is there really

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are the stages of grief it's almost

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textbook of you know your denial stage

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of your acceptance stage of your you

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know whatever I remember one day

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distinctly begging God I won't swear

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anymore if you take this away and then

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at once each other oh my goodness bad

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time to be an atheist better what the

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hell it can't hurt to ask so look I

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think I can joke about it now obviously

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it's many years later after my child was

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diagnosed I appreciate for parents who

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are newer to this it can be a lot more

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distressing because it's the fear of the

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unknown it's not that you know what

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autism is you just you're fearful

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because you've read of what it might be

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and there's not really a lot of point in

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spending a lot of time in that headspace

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and what we try and do with parents has

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say an autism diagnosis is challenging

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but it's not the end of the world this

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is not the biggest tragedy that's going

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to happen but we need to get that little

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person busy in order to give them the

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best chance of an independent life and a

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good outcome and within your work with

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children and as a mother of jack when

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was the first time someone came to you

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with their personal theory or a general

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theory of why this was happening um i

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guess i happen to be the first

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generation that wasn't necessarily

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pointing the finger at the mum that that

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certainly was in the 60s and 70s and 80s

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very much the idea that the children had

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autism as a result of their mother being

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very Mother's being very cold

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refrigerator mother's as what they used

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to call it I guess I was pretty

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confident that that wasn't at play in my

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case because

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there couldn't be anything on the planet

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I loved more than Jack Rogerson so I

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knew that it wasn't a lack of love but

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you but you still think of everything

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what about the drink I had or so that

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was the standard theory up to a certain

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point like during the 40s 50s 60s that

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the mother had not been yet touchy carry

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enough absolutely they just it wasn't

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that bonding and and as such the child

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was living in a world on their own

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because they just simply weren't getting

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any love I mean it's almost laughable

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now but you know this was popular

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psychology around the issue at the time

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okay and and then what was thrown in

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your face is all about have been this

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you did this this happened this

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environmental thing happened I don't

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think anyone did it to me I think I did

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it to myself and I think parents do do

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it themselves even if you know it's

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silly you know I like to say I'm a

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sensible evidence-based you know clever

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woman with a tertiary education but

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guess what I did some pretty stupid

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things and and had some silly thoughts

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you know you're like off today today was

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it the glass of red wine i had the week

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before I found out I was pregnant was it

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you know I don't know something I did

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when I was at University you know

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there's a million things that you think

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what did I do to cause this when in

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actual fact you know it we didn't do

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anything and of course that goes on to

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the the crackpot scale there too so what

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have been some of the theories people

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who advanced you with very little or

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zero evidence oh there's so many it's

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wonderful and you know what I love now

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I've been in this industry for lack of a

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better word for 16 years I love the ones

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that were around 16 years ago and they

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come around again for a second a second

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wall at the second go look obviously

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there's there's really silly silly

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people who promote things like the

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toxins in the air the vaccination one is

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a huge one they tend to be those kind of

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more crackpot theories tend to come from

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people in the quote-unquote wellness

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organizations the idea around

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alternative medicine and clean living

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all of that kind of thing that the

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environment has somehow caused or a

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vaccination has somehow causes child's

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autism

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it is a possibility that it could be

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something like that but these people

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don't bring anything that could be even

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vaguely evidence today no there's not

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and we know fundamentally an

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environmental trigger might be there but

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the one thing we do know is that there

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there is definitely a genetic basis to

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this now that doesn't explain everything

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either but it does show us and point us

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into the direction that there has been a

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mutation that has occurred something has

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occurred during pregnancy that is

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ultimately going to end with a child

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being on the autism spectrum but here is

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the problem that I see is that we start

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noticing a child might be autistic

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around the age of 18 months which is

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also coincidentally the time that

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00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:20,110
children have most of their vaccinations

272
00:10:26,030 --> 00:10:23,110
more commonly the MMR which is obviously

273
00:10:28,470 --> 00:10:26,040
where that the scandal arose so I have

274
00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:28,480
despite the fact the science has time

275
00:10:34,020 --> 00:10:30,670
and time again talked about the safety

276
00:10:36,180 --> 00:10:34,030
of vaccinations I still meet otherwise

277
00:10:37,950 --> 00:10:36,190
intelligent parents who will say to me

278
00:10:40,110 --> 00:10:37,960
Nicole there's nothing you can say I

279
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:40,120
know vaccinations cause my child's

280
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:42,490
autism because of a cause and effect

281
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:44,410
they had vaccinations and within like a

282
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:45,730
month or two they were noticed know it

283
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:47,050
oh that must have been that yeah

284
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:49,200
absolutely and and I think that also

285
00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:52,270
maybe plays into a little bit of the

286
00:10:55,830 --> 00:10:54,310
narrative here is you have to understand

287
00:10:59,430 --> 00:10:55,840
if your child is born with a disability

288
00:11:00,990 --> 00:10:59,440
you know that usually on day one or you

289
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:01,000
might even not before they're born in

290
00:11:04,980 --> 00:11:02,770
the case of parents of children on the

291
00:11:08,010 --> 00:11:04,990
spectrum all was looking pretty good you

292
00:11:09,390 --> 00:11:08,020
know you can't see autism so little

293
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:09,400
babies look like they've got five

294
00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:11,920
fingers and on each hand and ten toes

295
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:13,870
and it was all looking healthy so all of

296
00:11:17,630 --> 00:11:15,550
a sudden to have what some people

297
00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:17,640
consider this catastrophic diagnosis at

298
00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:20,830
the toddler age tends to make parents

299
00:11:26,130 --> 00:11:24,100
put them in a heightened state a really

300
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:26,140
heightened emotional state and how do

301
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,610
you handle that because it's a very

302
00:11:30,930 --> 00:11:29,440
emotional argument and it's a very

303
00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:30,940
passionate argument that people feel

304
00:11:34,650 --> 00:11:32,920
about this how do you navigate that that

305
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:34,660
that's that's a it's a faux pas

306
00:11:40,890 --> 00:11:37,690
minefield it really is and I think what

307
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:40,900
we have chosen to do is there's no point

308
00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:42,610
arguing with a parent about it you know

309
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:45,790
the reason a parent feels that way tends

310
00:11:52,829 --> 00:11:50,110
to be a belief it's not obviously

311
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:52,839
a scientific one it's a belief that they

312
00:11:56,220 --> 00:11:54,250
feel that this is what's occurred I

313
00:11:58,590 --> 00:11:56,230
personally don't see any point in having

314
00:11:59,790 --> 00:11:58,600
that argument I think the most important

315
00:12:01,650 --> 00:11:59,800
work that we can do at autism awareness

316
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:01,660
Australia is to put forward

317
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:04,720
evidence-based credible information so

318
00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:06,490
that at least we're pointing parents in

319
00:12:09,870 --> 00:12:08,140
the direction of the of captain sensible

320
00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:09,880
and there's always going to be people

321
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:11,800
for emotional reasons who just can't go

322
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,290
there but I think the more education we

323
00:12:18,269 --> 00:12:16,480
do of the entire community I was

324
00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:18,279
recently saw a study that alarmed the

325
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:19,690
hell out of me I think came out of

326
00:12:23,220 --> 00:12:21,610
Canada that said something like twenty

327
00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:23,230
percent of young people between the ages

328
00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:26,649
of 18 and 24 believed that vaccinations

329
00:12:30,030 --> 00:12:28,870
caused autism my thought at the time was

330
00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:30,040
before I couldn't us all these people

331
00:12:33,449 --> 00:12:31,180
going to be parents in the next ten

332
00:12:34,769 --> 00:12:33,459
years you know we've got work to do and

333
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:34,779
it's not just within the autism

334
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:36,010
community it's within the wider

335
00:12:41,699 --> 00:12:39,180
community to make sure people you know

336
00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:41,709
almost break the link between what is

337
00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:44,620
seen as vaccinations and autism what's

338
00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:46,120
interesting for me and my day-to-day

339
00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:48,910
work in the clinic is it's a private

340
00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:51,220
clinic where a predominantly a large

341
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:54,070
portion of our families are again

342
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:57,370
tertiary educated it otherwise you know

343
00:13:00,960 --> 00:12:59,920
bright people the amount of children

344
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:00,970
that we have here in the clinic who

345
00:13:05,130 --> 00:13:02,649
haven't been vaccinated is almost

346
00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:05,140
ironical because they fit into the

347
00:13:08,250 --> 00:13:06,550
category of parents who chose not to

348
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:08,260
vaccinate but guess what your child

349
00:13:13,050 --> 00:13:10,690
still has autism what do you say to

350
00:13:16,170 --> 00:13:13,060
people that claim to have it cured the

351
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:16,180
autism well it's obviously a nonsense

352
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:19,690
but but herein lies the problem is it

353
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:21,760
autism and disability largely in

354
00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:23,680
Australia is an incredibly unregulated

355
00:13:28,980 --> 00:13:26,260
area frightening Lee so I do hope that

356
00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:28,990
changes when the NDIS comes so obviously

357
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:31,180
there are they're charlatans of all

358
00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:33,130
types and sometimes there will many

359
00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:35,260
charlatans which is even worse so

360
00:13:39,870 --> 00:13:38,649
everything silly from homeopathy right

361
00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:39,880
through to just downright dangerous

362
00:13:45,569 --> 00:13:42,360
which is things like collation

363
00:13:47,610 --> 00:13:45,579
hyperbaric chambers you know I'd love to

364
00:13:49,889 --> 00:13:47,620
really arrogantly stand here and say I

365
00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:49,899
have never you know been tempted by

366
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:52,120
those kinds of things I absolutely have

367
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:54,220
and I've done them with Jack and that's

368
00:13:58,380 --> 00:13:56,050
because parents are very vulnerable and

369
00:13:59,519 --> 00:13:58,390
you read a website that says a classic

370
00:14:01,949 --> 00:13:59,529
one for me it was something called

371
00:14:02,970 --> 00:14:01,959
auditory integration training it's so

372
00:14:03,780 --> 00:14:02,980
silly when I tell you you're going to

373
00:14:06,990 --> 00:14:03,790
laugh but

374
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:07,000
involves Jack going to a room for half

375
00:14:11,820 --> 00:14:09,490
an hour every day and listening to music

376
00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:11,830
at a certain frequency how did I

377
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:15,400
actually think this was going to in any

378
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:17,680
way shape or form help some of the

379
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:20,050
aspects that he was fine and difficult

380
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:21,850
at the time namely communication and

381
00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:24,490
behavior so it costs four thousand

382
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:26,680
dollars half an hour of this music

383
00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:28,480
ironically enough I found that one day

384
00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:29,560
he was listening to elton john and i

385
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:30,760
thought that might make the condition

386
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:34,090
worse but that's a by the by i read on a

387
00:14:38,430 --> 00:14:35,530
website that it doesn't work if you do

388
00:14:40,020 --> 00:14:38,440
it once you have to do it twice so who

389
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:40,030
spends eight thousand dollars on a silly

390
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:42,970
therapy you know and I guess I look back

391
00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:44,710
at it now and say I was just desperate

392
00:14:48,570 --> 00:14:46,840
and I didn't care what was

393
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,580
scientifically evidence based on what

394
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:50,560
wasn't I just said I don't care who's

395
00:14:54,510 --> 00:14:51,850
right and wrong I just want you to fix

396
00:14:57,690 --> 00:14:54,520
my kid I want my kid to get more support

397
00:15:00,450 --> 00:14:57,700
and so now as an old woman I can look

398
00:15:03,390 --> 00:15:00,460
back and say to parents you know come on

399
00:15:06,630 --> 00:15:03,400
guys be sensible be savvy consumers you

400
00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:06,640
know things that are on websites i saw

401
00:15:13,020 --> 00:15:09,160
one recently pediatrician formulated it

402
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:13,030
says and their tablets that 4995 and the

403
00:15:18,330 --> 00:15:14,410
child takes the tablets and then

404
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:18,340
magically their brain resets itself and

405
00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:20,770
the child can talk just things like that

406
00:15:24,450 --> 00:15:22,750
but it's just really sad that you can

407
00:15:27,780 --> 00:15:24,460
see vulnerable parents clicking on that

408
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:27,790
and buying the 4995 tablets that will

409
00:15:30,990 --> 00:15:29,770
make this better so I've got listeners

410
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:31,000
out there that wouldn't mind doing that

411
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,770
have the activism in this area or what

412
00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:35,040
can I do about it to help changes oh

413
00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:38,100
goodness me come on down pick up a pen

414
00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:39,940
what look I think it's just really

415
00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:41,950
important to make sure we all share and

416
00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:43,750
disseminate really good quality

417
00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:46,870
information and it no time in history

418
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:48,760
can I remember it being as easy as it is

419
00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:50,800
now with things like Facebook and

420
00:15:56,130 --> 00:15:53,380
Twitter you know share amongst your

421
00:15:58,410 --> 00:15:56,140
social networks the really good quality

422
00:16:00,390 --> 00:15:58,420
information so that parents everywhere

423
00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:00,400
no matter at what stage there are are

424
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:03,580
being you know shown what is sensible

425
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:05,530
science and what the good sensible

426
00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:07,330
people are saying and doing because

427
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:09,880
otherwise you've got to fight back to

428
00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:11,410
the crazies and the problem is the

429
00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:14,350
biggest crazies in this area have tended

430
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:16,000
to come out of hollywood

431
00:16:20,190 --> 00:16:18,190
just this week we've had Jim Carrey far

432
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,200
enough about the mirasol yeah look Jim

433
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:22,240
carrion and Jenny McCarthy have just

434
00:16:28,290 --> 00:16:25,600
been absolutely complicit in in making

435
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:28,300
our jobs so much harder I mean you know

436
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:30,010
I don't mind people obviously coming out

437
00:16:34,110 --> 00:16:31,090
and talking about their personal

438
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:34,120
experience with their child with autism

439
00:16:40,380 --> 00:16:37,330
of done that myself but to actively be

440
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:40,390
peddling pseudoscience and and muddying

441
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:42,130
the waters they they've absolutely

442
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:44,110
guilty of doing that and it's really

443
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:46,390
unhelpful but guess what Jenny McCarthy

444
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,250
and Jim Carrey tend to get an hour on

445
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:51,040
CNN they get an hour on Oprah they they

446
00:16:55,770 --> 00:16:54,130
own the space so it's really hard to

447
00:16:57,990 --> 00:16:55,780
fight back against that because by the

448
00:17:01,080 --> 00:16:58,000
way our message isn't as sexy our

449
00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:01,090
message is Wow vaccinations are sensible

450
00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:02,350
and we don't know what caused your

451
00:17:06,210 --> 00:17:04,300
child's autism you know it's not going

452
00:17:09,090 --> 00:17:06,220
to sell a lot of books you know where is

453
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:09,100
the immediate go to conspiracy big

454
00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:10,810
farmer you know all of that kind of

455
00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:13,900
stuff is so much more of a sexy sell so

456
00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:16,060
yeah that's what sensible bright people

457
00:17:20,189 --> 00:17:18,370
have to do is make sure that you call

458
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,199
out nonsense whenever you see it and you

459
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:22,480
share good quality information whenever

460
00:17:25,770 --> 00:17:24,640
you can get it and I've been look at you

461
00:17:27,449 --> 00:17:25,780
are sharing some good quality

462
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:27,459
information on Facebook here and you've

463
00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:29,230
got some surprising results I won't name

464
00:17:32,430 --> 00:17:30,580
names there but people are saying you

465
00:17:33,780 --> 00:17:32,440
are supporting oppression in the US and

466
00:17:35,490 --> 00:17:33,790
that sort of thing it and then people

467
00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:35,500
are questioning that you getting some

468
00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:38,500
money from Big Pharma which is the cases

469
00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:41,320
are you are you sure the Big Pharma yeah

470
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:44,440
totally and I I'd love their money no

471
00:17:48,990 --> 00:17:45,850
they don't know we don't get funding

472
00:17:53,250 --> 00:17:49,000
from anybody not even a pen or a pad not

473
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:53,260
even a pen or a pad sad sad no

474
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:54,690
apparently we're not worthy of bribing

475
00:17:59,670 --> 00:17:58,090
look the reality is we're a completely

476
00:18:02,100 --> 00:17:59,680
independent organization I could give

477
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:02,110
two hoots to be honest who thinks

478
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:05,770
otherwise where the number one thing our

479
00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:07,720
organization wants to do is make sure we

480
00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:09,430
disseminate to our very large group

481
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,140
online really good quality information

482
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:13,120
every time you put something up that's

483
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:15,190
captain sensible there will be someone

484
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:17,170
on the fringe that will say oh that's

485
00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:18,880
absolute nonsense and I just say don't

486
00:18:23,070 --> 00:18:21,160
follow organizations like us if we're

487
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,080
not helping you if this message isn't

488
00:18:26,550 --> 00:18:25,120
for you and go and join the crazy

489
00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:26,560
persons Facebook page it's absolutely

490
00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:28,340
fine there's plenty of them and

491
00:18:32,620 --> 00:18:30,620
don't follow a house but and I guess we

492
00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:32,630
we've got some lines and some rules

493
00:18:37,210 --> 00:18:35,480
around our our social media which is we

494
00:18:38,919 --> 00:18:37,220
don't mind you can you can send us a

495
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:38,929
mean message saying that we're funded by

496
00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:40,850
big farmer and that's cool I can live

497
00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:42,590
with that we're grownups we don't engage

498
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:46,400
in silly nonsense we just we tend to let

499
00:18:48,850 --> 00:18:47,570
the audience fight it out amongst

500
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:48,860
themselves and we've got far more

501
00:18:54,610 --> 00:18:51,890
sensible supporters than silly ones best

502
00:18:58,180 --> 00:18:54,620
movie involving someone on the autism

503
00:18:59,680 --> 00:18:58,190
spectrum what a question yeah um well

504
00:19:01,269 --> 00:18:59,690
you're not allowed to say Rain Man my

505
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,279
god I was it's very important that

506
00:19:05,710 --> 00:19:02,960
everybody knows Rain Man is you know

507
00:19:07,149 --> 00:19:05,720
just a depiction of autism that is it

508
00:19:09,010 --> 00:19:07,159
does not depict autism in the vast

509
00:19:10,750 --> 00:19:09,020
majority of people who have it I'm not

510
00:19:13,210 --> 00:19:10,760
just wanting it is there any any movie

511
00:19:15,580 --> 00:19:13,220
that even comes close to any reality if

512
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:15,590
that's even possible I don't know if

513
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:16,850
it's possible I want to say some of the

514
00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:18,770
best work done which was not a movie but

515
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:20,600
their work done by Louie throw did a

516
00:19:23,380 --> 00:19:21,919
great piece on autism and that i can

517
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:23,390
recommend people having a look at

518
00:19:28,539 --> 00:19:26,690
because it just shows the wonderful you

519
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:28,549
know spectrum that is autism spectrum

520
00:19:33,639 --> 00:19:30,380
disorder it's it's very hard to talk

521
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:33,649
about and because it's it's so wide and

522
00:19:37,899 --> 00:19:35,690
if people want to get involved or visit

523
00:19:40,299 --> 00:19:37,909
or join what you're doing what's the

524
00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:40,309
best website to go to look it really is

525
00:19:44,980 --> 00:19:42,860
better to join us online come and see

526
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,990
our autism awareness facebook page and

527
00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:46,880
join the group it's it's fascinating i'm

528
00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:48,470
doing a little bit of data analysis

529
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,870
myself on the popularity of things that

530
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,360
we post and i like posting information

531
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:56,000
about either good quality research or

532
00:20:00,159 --> 00:19:57,770
providing parents information about the

533
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:00,169
ndas coming but it still happens to be

534
00:20:04,419 --> 00:20:02,330
the fluffy dog story that comes from the

535
00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:04,429
mighty website that gets the most hits

536
00:20:11,019 --> 00:20:08,870
so we've got a temper our everyone be

537
00:20:13,570 --> 00:20:11,029
sensible message with also some just

538
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:13,580
good human stories that make people feel

539
00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:15,770
connected to the community and connected

540
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:18,350
as parents and i can say the one benefit

541
00:20:22,659 --> 00:20:21,230
for autism for me in you know it's

542
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:22,669
obviously joining a mother's group you

543
00:20:26,919 --> 00:20:25,190
didn't intend in joining but i can say

544
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:26,929
the one benefit that's given to me over

545
00:20:31,389 --> 00:20:28,880
the years is the great camaraderie that

546
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:31,399
exists between parents of children on

547
00:20:34,899 --> 00:20:33,710
the spectrum in the you know too cheesy

548
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:34,909
but in though we're all in this together

549
00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:37,250
kind of category there's been some

550
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:39,320
pretty nice human moments over those 15

551
00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:40,140
years so I'm not

552
00:20:44,180 --> 00:20:42,870
I'm not regretting any of it and being a

553
00:20:46,730 --> 00:20:44,190
political junkie what are you going to

554
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:46,740
call it Trump versus Clinton in the US

555
00:20:51,950 --> 00:20:49,770
election look I just want Trump for

556
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,960
comedic reasons and I think everybody

557
00:20:57,140 --> 00:20:54,240
does i mean i want michelle bachman back

558
00:20:59,090 --> 00:20:57,150
i want Ted Cruz to keep going I mean

559
00:21:01,970 --> 00:20:59,100
this is just you know it's it's fueling

560
00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:01,980
Saturday Night Live and giving my kids

561
00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:03,630
and I a fantastic amount of

562
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:06,060
entertainment so I'm just hoping nobody

563
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:09,480
sensible enters the race and the website

564
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,650
once again which is different from the

565
00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:12,480
center you here at new you this day a

566
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:14,940
charity is a a non-profit being a

567
00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:16,110
non-for-profit is called autism

568
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:19,020
awareness calm today you and or autism

569
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:20,970
awareness Australia on facebook and

570
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:23,370
twitter and and join us in and by all

571
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:24,960
means this is what we also love is

572
00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:26,670
people sharing really good quality

573
00:21:30,290 --> 00:21:28,230
information if you come across something

574
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:30,300
that's good and smart and you can get

575
00:21:33,470 --> 00:21:32,130
exposure evidence-based and you think it

576
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:33,480
needs an audience give it to us because

577
00:21:59,240 --> 00:21:56,840
save discovery help save bindi goes

578
00:22:01,970 --> 00:21:59,250
beloved discovery center so they can

579
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:01,980
continue providing inspiration hands-on

580
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:04,140
science learning experiences that are

581
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:06,750
fun for everyone for 20 years discovery

582
00:22:10,790 --> 00:22:08,910
has been providing fun hands-on science

583
00:22:13,070 --> 00:22:10,800
experiences for students teachers

584
00:22:14,810 --> 00:22:13,080
visitors the community of Bendigo and

585
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:14,820
beyond whether it's learning about

586
00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:17,010
gravity and the body's fear response by

587
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,140
plummeting down the vertical slide or

588
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:21,360
flying through the solar system in a

589
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:23,730
planetarium a visit to discovery

590
00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:26,370
involves unforgettable experiences that

591
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:28,710
open up a world of wonder for visitors

592
00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:31,170
of all ages they know how important it

593
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:33,180
is to engage young people in learning

594
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:35,630
from preschool to year 12 and beyond

595
00:22:40,670 --> 00:22:38,310
that's what they do it Discovery they

596
00:22:42,980 --> 00:22:40,680
run specialized groups like curious kids

597
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:42,990
where preschool children learn about the

598
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:44,610
science behind their favorite story

599
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:46,410
books they run curriculum-based

600
00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:48,930
workshops for schools in their specially

601
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:51,270
designed lab and special events like

602
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:53,310
adults evenings where you can learn

603
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:54,810
about the science of chocolate while

604
00:22:58,970 --> 00:22:57,330
nibbling on canapes and sipping on a

605
00:23:00,560 --> 00:22:58,980
glass of wine they are now trying to

606
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:00,570
raise thirty thousand dollars by the

607
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:03,720
31st of July so they can keep their

608
00:23:08,060 --> 00:23:05,730
doors open why they get back on their

609
00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:08,070
feet unfortunately discovery is in

610
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,230
crisis at the moment they are facing an

611
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:12,000
uncertain future due to lack of

612
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:14,490
operational funding like every other

613
00:23:18,410 --> 00:23:16,410
science center and museum and art

614
00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:18,420
gallery in the world they don't make

615
00:23:23,870 --> 00:23:20,760
enough money through admissions to fund

616
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:23,880
their everyday operations so folks what

617
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:27,600
can I say if you like to support science

618
00:23:30,770 --> 00:23:29,100
and by listening to the skeptic zone I

619
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:30,780
know you like to do that especially

620
00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:32,730
science outreach to the younger

621
00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:34,470
generations and that's a very important

622
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:39,960
interest of mine why not visit WWF org

623
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:44,250
slash project / save hyphen discovery I

624
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:46,140
shall put a link to that in the show

625
00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:49,140
notes or just google Discovery Science

626
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:51,420
and Technology Center or save discovery

627
00:23:57,289 --> 00:23:54,290
but don't listen to me don't believe me

628
00:24:01,489 --> 00:23:57,299
here's the a direct plea from discover

629
00:24:04,850 --> 00:24:01,499
themselves discovery is the best place

630
00:24:07,129 --> 00:24:04,860
in the world hi I'm Kate I'm the manager

631
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:07,139
here at the Discovery Center discovery

632
00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:09,179
is in crisis at the moment but we've

633
00:24:13,940 --> 00:24:10,950
been overwhelmed by the incredible

634
00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:13,950
support from bendigo and beyond to save

635
00:24:19,129 --> 00:24:16,470
this invaluable community asset my

636
00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:19,139
favorite thing at Discovery Center is

637
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:22,980
the planetarium I'm Tony I'm a father of

638
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:25,289
two daughters and we love the Discovery

639
00:24:29,749 --> 00:24:27,690
Center retains on experimental learning

640
00:24:33,139 --> 00:24:29,759
and the way that it can make science fun

641
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:33,149
for all kids we know how important it is

642
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:35,129
to engage kids with science from

643
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:37,950
preschool to year 12 and beyond that's

644
00:24:42,409 --> 00:24:40,559
what we do here at Discovery there's

645
00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:42,419
heaps of stuff you can play them really

646
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:45,869
fun you've learned that gravity on the

647
00:24:51,259 --> 00:24:48,690
vertical side oh I'm bit sketchy over

648
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:51,269
there can fly through space in the

649
00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:53,970
planetarium we support teachers to

650
00:24:59,419 --> 00:24:56,190
provide engaging curriculum based

651
00:25:01,460 --> 00:24:59,429
activities and experiences we support

652
00:25:03,769 --> 00:25:01,470
parents to encourage their children's

653
00:25:06,109 --> 00:25:03,779
learning and we provide a great space

654
00:25:09,259 --> 00:25:06,119
for people of all ages to have fun with

655
00:25:11,980 --> 00:25:09,269
science one of my favorite things is the

656
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:11,990
Seaway pull yourself up with road

657
00:25:18,610 --> 00:25:14,570
my favorite thing in surrounding rage

658
00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:18,620
the vertical slide is heaps of fun we're

659
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:20,120
getting together a new management team

660
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:22,850
with great skills in education business

661
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:26,240
finance and marketing we already had key

662
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,730
stakeholder support we've got heaps of

663
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:30,559
great ideas about what we're going to do

664
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,110
with discovery moving into the future we

665
00:25:37,450 --> 00:25:35,120
just need community and business backing

666
00:25:40,270 --> 00:25:37,460
to get us over the line for the next six

667
00:25:42,970 --> 00:25:40,280
months with your support we can ensure

668
00:25:45,790 --> 00:25:42,980
that the Discovery Center survives and

669
00:25:48,250 --> 00:25:45,800
thrives into the future engaging kids

670
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:48,260
all across Victoria and further afield

671
00:25:55,210 --> 00:25:51,290
than that I really want discovery to

672
00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:55,220
stay open we're rebooting discovery come

673
00:25:59,770 --> 00:25:56,870
on this exciting journey with us and

674
00:26:02,280 --> 00:25:59,780
thank you so much for your support we

675
00:26:08,590 --> 00:26:02,290
need your help to save discovery

676
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:08,600
discovery the best place in the world so

677
00:26:13,090 --> 00:26:10,880
there you are folks why not help this

678
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:13,100
worthwhile project in Bendigo and

679
00:26:34,289 --> 00:26:25,120
Victoria and help save discovery on

680
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:36,879
you know everybody may know it wasn't

681
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:38,210
because AI was playing anything good

682
00:26:42,370 --> 00:26:40,130
that sort of self-deprecation and

683
00:26:43,659 --> 00:26:42,380
humility is why everybody likes hanging

684
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:43,669
around you do you think I should take

685
00:26:47,529 --> 00:26:45,049
that attitude that people should be

686
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:47,539
consider it lucky that I'm here exactly

687
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:50,240
i do how do you do that you have that

688
00:26:55,149 --> 00:26:52,370
you're lucky that I'm here hello

689
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:55,159
everyone well because they are and we

690
00:27:00,999 --> 00:26:58,250
touched Morrissey's actual slave you

691
00:27:03,129 --> 00:27:01,009
touched Morrissey's leave how that smell

692
00:27:04,690 --> 00:27:03,139
it didn't actually smell as sweaty as I

693
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:04,700
thought but then again it was his sleeve

694
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:06,080
and it had been waived around for a

695
00:27:26,169 --> 00:27:24,190
welcome to weaken science from our oz

696
00:27:28,990 --> 00:27:26,179
bringing you the science you need to

697
00:27:31,419 --> 00:27:29,000
know bungee jumping tall buildings or

698
00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:31,429
crossing bridges why some people afraid

699
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,870
of heights and ours aren't a fear of

700
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:40,399
heights could actually be a good thing

701
00:27:44,919 --> 00:27:42,529
it's a sign we've adapted to the world

702
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:44,929
around us a novel fear of heights is

703
00:27:48,369 --> 00:27:46,610
considered to be an evolutionary

704
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:48,379
advantage to keep us safe from a

705
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:51,049
dangerous fall from a height infants and

706
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:52,490
young children are naturally cautious

707
00:27:56,769 --> 00:27:54,799
around Heights suggesting it's an

708
00:27:59,230 --> 00:27:56,779
inbuilt mechanism that we are born with

709
00:28:01,419 --> 00:27:59,240
now this is the normal uneasiness around

710
00:28:03,399 --> 00:28:01,429
Heights that most people feel not the

711
00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:03,409
phobia that some people experience a

712
00:28:08,259 --> 00:28:06,230
phobia of heights called acrophobia is

713
00:28:10,509 --> 00:28:08,269
far more serious it could be an

714
00:28:13,090 --> 00:28:10,519
unconsciously learned response due to a

715
00:28:15,789 --> 00:28:13,100
traumatic experience such as a fall or

716
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,799
even learned off a parent is essentially

717
00:28:20,289 --> 00:28:17,840
an extreme protective mechanism

718
00:28:22,269 --> 00:28:20,299
acrophobia is not the same as verse code

719
00:28:24,639 --> 00:28:22,279
which is caused by the eyes trying to

720
00:28:26,889 --> 00:28:24,649
focus on object a long distance away

721
00:28:29,379 --> 00:28:26,899
this causes the head to sway

722
00:28:32,499 --> 00:28:29,389
imperceptibly which the body then joins

723
00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:32,509
in on creating a whole body wobble if a

724
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:34,820
person's sense of balance is affected it

725
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:40,779
incredibly people who are afraid of

726
00:28:45,610 --> 00:28:43,250
heights actually see vertical distances

727
00:28:48,220 --> 00:28:45,620
as being greater than people who aren't

728
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:48,230
yep they actually see the distance down

729
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,230
being larger than it is volunteers with

730
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,880
the fear of heights were asked to

731
00:28:56,980 --> 00:28:54,559
estimate the building's height when they

732
00:28:59,560 --> 00:28:56,990
stood at the top or the bottom of a 14

733
00:29:01,870 --> 00:28:59,570
meter tall building they overestimated

734
00:29:03,370 --> 00:29:01,880
its height in both locations but when

735
00:29:05,529 --> 00:29:03,380
they are at the top they thought it was

736
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:05,539
much higher up than it really was and

737
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:08,090
the bigger the fear the grace of the

738
00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:10,880
error another study however showed that

739
00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:12,740
they think it's higher because they're

740
00:29:16,930 --> 00:29:15,080
afraid not that they're afraid because

741
00:29:19,180 --> 00:29:16,940
they think it's higher but if you're

742
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:19,190
afraid of heights here's four fast facts

743
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:23,210
to help you conquer your phobia the

744
00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:25,039
normal uneasiness around Heights that

745
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:27,380
most people have can be overcome and

746
00:29:32,110 --> 00:29:29,690
trained out by exposing themselves to

747
00:29:34,269 --> 00:29:32,120
high places more often virtual reality

748
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,279
is increasingly being used to help

749
00:29:38,889 --> 00:29:36,559
people overcome their phobia in a safe

750
00:29:40,990 --> 00:29:38,899
controlled environment the steroid

751
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,000
hormone causes all has been found to

752
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:43,279
increase the effectiveness of behavioral

753
00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:46,370
therapy in reducing acrophobia and to

754
00:29:50,259 --> 00:29:48,200
help your acrophobia you might want to

755
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:50,269
stop drinking coffee individual case

756
00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:52,130
studies have shown that it can help some

757
00:29:56,529 --> 00:29:54,169
people that's it for this week in

758
00:29:59,639 --> 00:29:56,539
science for more information on a fear

759
00:30:03,460 --> 00:29:59,649
of heights goes the Arias websites are I

760
00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:03,470
aus org dot a you follow us on twitter

761
00:30:22,129 --> 00:30:06,830
at ra oz and like us on facebook i'm ben

762
00:30:28,109 --> 00:30:24,989
the skeptic magazine the journal from

763
00:30:30,329 --> 00:30:28,119
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

764
00:30:35,639 --> 00:30:30,339
the world's second oldest skeptical

765
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:35,649
magazine visit w WC e ma you and click

766
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:38,409
the publication's league you can also

767
00:30:45,690 --> 00:30:42,399
find their over 30 years on back issues

768
00:31:05,060 --> 00:30:45,700
free to download the skeptic magazine

769
00:31:10,770 --> 00:31:07,860
and joining me now all the way from

770
00:31:13,470 --> 00:31:10,780
sunny Melbourne sunny Melbourne well

771
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:13,480
it's it can be sunny in Melbourne it's

772
00:31:18,539 --> 00:31:16,570
Jack Scanlon hello jack hi Richard great

773
00:31:20,669 --> 00:31:18,549
to be on the show thank you jack and

774
00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:20,679
you're no stranger to podcasting

775
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:22,420
yourself of course now you have been

776
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:25,570
doing podcasts for a little while now

777
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:27,850
I've got the pseudo-scientists podcasts

778
00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:30,850
the main one I've been doing haven't had

779
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:32,260
a lot of chance to do that recently

780
00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:34,690
actually so it's good to be back on one

781
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:38,470
even though it's not my own back on the

782
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:41,770
internet back back to the podcasting

783
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:43,510
airwave so to speak no it's pleasure to

784
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:45,370
have you jack of course you've been a

785
00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:47,710
skeptic for a long time part of the

786
00:31:51,299 --> 00:31:49,720
young Australian skeptics of course too

787
00:31:53,549 --> 00:31:51,309
but actually that prompts the question

788
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:53,559
what at what stage you kicked out of the

789
00:31:58,409 --> 00:31:55,150
young Australian skeptics for being too

790
00:32:01,530 --> 00:31:58,419
old I never thought about that yeah it's

791
00:32:05,850 --> 00:32:01,540
a tough question um it's I don't know

792
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:05,860
it's some we don't really like to put

793
00:32:11,789 --> 00:32:08,350
labels on people because age is always

794
00:32:13,620 --> 00:32:11,799
you know a relative thing anyway so

795
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:13,630
someone who someone might think is old

796
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:15,690
might be young compared to someone else

797
00:32:20,130 --> 00:32:18,010
but I guess the the young Australian

798
00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:20,140
skeptics started just to support some of

799
00:32:24,990 --> 00:32:23,020
the younger people who I don't know

800
00:32:27,419 --> 00:32:25,000
thought that because I guess the

801
00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:27,429
skeptical community traditionally I mean

802
00:32:30,919 --> 00:32:28,660
it's very different now but

803
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:30,929
traditionally was a lot of sort of

804
00:32:35,490 --> 00:32:34,240
middle-aged people and a bit older so we

805
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:35,500
thought it would be good to represent

806
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:37,120
some of the sort of high schoolers and

807
00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:39,490
undergraduate students and stuff so

808
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:43,000
there's no real cut off but there's I

809
00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:44,410
don't know is it you can always make a

810
00:32:49,049 --> 00:32:47,590
case that you're young I guess I think

811
00:32:50,460 --> 00:32:49,059
you're absolutely right i mean compared

812
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:50,470
to someone like James Randi were all

813
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:54,880
young so that's okay the Youngs young

814
00:32:59,250 --> 00:32:57,010
skeptics hello Randy if you're listening

815
00:33:02,940 --> 00:32:59,260
now Jack this is very exciting your

816
00:33:04,980 --> 00:33:02,950
involve was a group of very interesting

817
00:33:07,620 --> 00:33:04,990
people my goodness me very interesting

818
00:33:09,570 --> 00:33:07,630
people and a new endeavor it's sort of

819
00:33:13,710 --> 00:33:09,580
like an online magazine what can you

820
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:13,720
tell me about that well yes i'm starting

821
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:15,220
a an online legs

822
00:33:19,529 --> 00:33:17,890
and as you said called lateral and it's

823
00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:19,539
an online magazine because it's a

824
00:33:23,850 --> 00:33:21,190
magazine it doesn't have a print edition

825
00:33:27,299 --> 00:33:23,860
it's a lot cheaper you know not to not

826
00:33:29,850 --> 00:33:27,309
have to print things out so it's it's

827
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:29,860
kind of like I don't know there's a lot

828
00:33:34,260 --> 00:33:31,570
of magazines that are online these days

829
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:34,270
particularly science magazines you know

830
00:33:38,610 --> 00:33:36,880
New Scientist you can even get you know

831
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:38,620
the skeptic and things like that online

832
00:33:45,659 --> 00:33:43,030
as well and people are reading a lot of

833
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:45,669
stuff online these days newspapers are

834
00:33:50,220 --> 00:33:47,200
going online and we just thought it

835
00:33:53,539 --> 00:33:50,230
would be a good idea to contribute to

836
00:33:56,250 --> 00:33:53,549
that online scientific space

837
00:34:00,090 --> 00:33:56,260
particularly in the area of supporting

838
00:34:02,010 --> 00:34:00,100
younger science writers because there's

839
00:34:03,539 --> 00:34:02,020
this huge demand at the moment for great

840
00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:03,549
science communicators and people that

841
00:34:09,389 --> 00:34:05,620
can talk about science and critical

842
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:09,399
thinking and skepticism and people want

843
00:34:12,839 --> 00:34:11,050
all of these really good writers to be

844
00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:12,849
out there but I don't think a lot of

845
00:34:17,010 --> 00:34:14,590
people have thought of the way that

846
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,020
those younger people the way that those

847
00:34:22,260 --> 00:34:19,919
people are coming in and starting out

848
00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:22,270
particularly younger people who might be

849
00:34:26,669 --> 00:34:24,550
science students or people at

850
00:34:28,919 --> 00:34:26,679
universities of high school or even

851
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:28,929
people you know not in university at all

852
00:34:32,579 --> 00:34:30,490
but are interested in those areas and

853
00:34:37,770 --> 00:34:32,589
writing about that and we wanted to

854
00:34:39,329 --> 00:34:37,780
create a platform where people can

855
00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:39,339
develop their skills in an editorial

856
00:34:44,579 --> 00:34:41,710
environment producing a publication

857
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:44,589
that's free for everyone to read that

858
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:47,770
creates great articles publishes great

859
00:34:53,010 --> 00:34:50,639
scientific inspired artwork as well and

860
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:53,020
just put it all online out there so

861
00:34:57,900 --> 00:34:55,270
people can develop and basically

862
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:57,910
contribute to that ongoing mission to

863
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:00,480
better the the science and skepticism

864
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:03,760
communication in the world it sounds to

865
00:35:08,130 --> 00:35:06,160
me like a wonderful idea because what

866
00:35:10,349 --> 00:35:08,140
you're also doing is you're giving

867
00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:10,359
younger scientific people may be

868
00:35:15,060 --> 00:35:12,280
scientific communicators or people who

869
00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:15,070
have have a great interest in this a

870
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:17,380
chance for them to cut their teeth in

871
00:35:24,329 --> 00:35:20,730
and to get into publishing and to get

872
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:24,339
their chops in formulating articles and

873
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:26,410
reports and communicating with the

874
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:28,510
public so i think that's it that's a

875
00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:29,090
wonderful

876
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:33,260
what what was the the genesis of the

877
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:34,760
idea was there something you came up

878
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:37,730
with or was it a group of people well

879
00:35:41,410 --> 00:35:38,960
there's a group of people behind the

880
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:41,420
magazine I guess you could say that I

881
00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:43,490
came up with the idea although the

882
00:35:47,950 --> 00:35:44,750
people that are currently involved all

883
00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:47,960
the editors along with me I we're all

884
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:50,120
contributing to it now and the magazine

885
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:53,090
as it is as it will be here when it's

886
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:54,650
launched in a couple of next month

887
00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:57,440
actually but that wouldn't be possible

888
00:36:01,480 --> 00:35:59,330
without all the people that have helped

889
00:36:04,540 --> 00:36:01,490
me along but the magazine sort of got to

890
00:36:06,940 --> 00:36:04,550
start when I realized that there was a

891
00:36:08,530 --> 00:36:06,950
bit of a gap between the professional

892
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:08,540
science journalists and science writers

893
00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:10,760
that we're writing for places like New

894
00:36:16,030 --> 00:36:13,660
Scientist and National Geographic and

895
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,040
cosmos magazine and things like that and

896
00:36:21,550 --> 00:36:18,560
the sort of the blog's that I guess

897
00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:21,560
people assume to be where people have to

898
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:22,910
get their start you know you have to

899
00:36:26,650 --> 00:36:24,320
write on the blog your own personal blog

900
00:36:28,990 --> 00:36:26,660
pages and then you'll get discovered by

901
00:36:31,180 --> 00:36:29,000
somebody and then you can finally write

902
00:36:35,380 --> 00:36:31,190
professionally I guess but I've always

903
00:36:37,210 --> 00:36:35,390
seemed a bit of a slapdash I don't know

904
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:37,220
way to get into science writing it

905
00:36:40,630 --> 00:36:39,170
seemed a bit like you have to rely on

906
00:36:42,610 --> 00:36:40,640
luck or you have to rely on the right

907
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:42,620
circumstances and there wasn't really

908
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:44,930
that as I said there wasn't that pathway

909
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:47,330
for people to develop so I was thinking

910
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:48,890
about that in the context of the group

911
00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:50,480
blog that the young Australian skeptics

912
00:36:53,620 --> 00:36:52,580
has had for a number of years now and I

913
00:36:56,140 --> 00:36:53,630
just thought that it would be better to

914
00:36:57,790 --> 00:36:56,150
formalize that into something that was

915
00:36:59,500 --> 00:36:57,800
actually a proper publication that

916
00:37:01,900 --> 00:36:59,510
people can point to and say hey I've

917
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:01,910
written for that I can put it on my CV

918
00:37:07,390 --> 00:37:04,010
and it you know it's reasonably

919
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,400
impressive so the idea was churning

920
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:08,960
around in my head for about a year and

921
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:10,490
then i thought i should actually do it

922
00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:14,450
i'm at the stage where you know i'm sort

923
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:17,270
of finishing up a degree in science and

924
00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:19,330
i want to take a bit of time off that

925
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:21,830
i'll have the time to commit to it and

926
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:25,010
so that's what we did and I've got

927
00:37:30,190 --> 00:37:26,150
together a team and they're all very

928
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:30,200
talented and they're giving it a really

929
00:37:35,170 --> 00:37:33,530
red-hot go I guess a red-hot go that's

930
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,180
exactly the expression I've had a look

931
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:37,280
at the web page you've got set up and we

932
00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:38,930
can talk about that in a second but just

933
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:41,940
briefly are the skill set and the back

934
00:37:46,010 --> 00:37:43,890
some of the people you have involved

935
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:46,020
with this or you're involving this it's

936
00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:47,730
quite impressive and quite interesting

937
00:37:52,370 --> 00:37:49,500
now we've got astronomers and all sorts

938
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:52,380
of people well we wanted to make the

939
00:38:00,050 --> 00:37:56,460
team as diverse as possible because the

940
00:38:02,750 --> 00:38:00,060
aim of lateral is to explore other than

941
00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:02,760
supporting young writers from the actual

942
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:04,380
perspective of the audience we wanted to

943
00:38:10,309 --> 00:38:06,690
create a magazine that people would want

944
00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:10,319
to read that that encompasses as much of

945
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:12,990
the scientific sort of landscape as

946
00:38:18,109 --> 00:38:15,569
possible and how science influences

947
00:38:23,740 --> 00:38:18,119
things like politics and education

948
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:23,750
journalism law all stuff like that and

949
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,640
so we've got people who are journalism

950
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:28,800
students we've got zoologist we've got

951
00:38:35,150 --> 00:38:32,310
astrophysicists we've got chemists we've

952
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:35,160
got people doing phd's in in biomedicine

953
00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:38,490
as well so we tried to try to make the

954
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:40,680
team as diverse as possible with a wide

955
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:44,609
range of differing you know backgrounds

956
00:38:49,069 --> 00:38:46,560
and different types of experiences we're

957
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:49,079
still actually looking for more people

958
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:51,119
to join the team at the editorial team

959
00:38:57,650 --> 00:38:54,560
so if there's anybody listening who

960
00:39:01,250 --> 00:38:57,660
would maybe like to get involved then I

961
00:39:03,490 --> 00:39:01,260
would like to ask them maybe to get in

962
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:03,500
touch with us if they if they'd like

963
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,690
particularly if anybody has any interest

964
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:08,880
in the area of philosophy and the

965
00:39:13,849 --> 00:39:10,290
history of science we're looking for

966
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:13,859
people to cover that area for us there

967
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,450
is your invitation folks there's your

968
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:17,160
invitation if you are up-and-coming

969
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,260
young scientist if you're doing your

970
00:39:23,180 --> 00:39:21,119
degree at the moment it might be the

971
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:23,190
opportunity for you Jack how can people

972
00:39:27,890 --> 00:39:26,010
find out more and while they're finding

973
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:27,900
out more in fact they can see a short

974
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:29,369
video you've put together and meet some

975
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:31,170
of the team which i think is a great

976
00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:34,770
thing yes or worse well at the moment

977
00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:36,780
where we're trying to raise funds for

978
00:39:40,339 --> 00:39:38,430
the magazine I don't know if I mentioned

979
00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:40,349
it before but everybody who contributes

980
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:42,180
to the magazine is actually going to be

981
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,640
paid it's not a not something people are

982
00:39:48,589 --> 00:39:46,560
I mean everybody's doing it because they

983
00:39:51,020 --> 00:39:48,599
they love doing it but we wanted to

984
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:51,030
provide paid opportunities because it's

985
00:39:54,319 --> 00:39:52,560
so rare these days if you're doing

986
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:54,329
things online that you're expected to

987
00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:55,650
sort of just do it for free

988
00:40:00,200 --> 00:39:58,440
so we wanted to yeah have some sort of

989
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:00,210
monetary compensation for people's time

990
00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:03,570
and effort and we're raising money at

991
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:04,980
the moment for that as well as the

992
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:06,300
design of the magazine which is

993
00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:08,370
currently ongoing I mean we've got the

994
00:40:15,130 --> 00:40:10,200
logo and everything's sorted out you can

995
00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:15,140
find that on our crowdfunding campaign

996
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:19,470
page which is on IndieGoGo and I'm sure

997
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:20,850
there'll be a link to it in the show now

998
00:40:24,830 --> 00:40:22,490
so we can just google lateral magazine

999
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:24,840
crowd funding or something it'll come up

1000
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:28,530
in google and yeah so we're trying to

1001
00:40:33,770 --> 00:40:30,390
raise money for that and that covers our

1002
00:40:35,690 --> 00:40:33,780
first six months of operation as well so

1003
00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:35,700
it's going to a good cause and will help

1004
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:38,280
us sort of find our feet and hopefully

1005
00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:39,960
make the magazine a sustainable

1006
00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:42,150
long-term sort of thing so that's

1007
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:44,100
lateral magazine you can find it if you

1008
00:40:47,060 --> 00:40:45,450
search for lateral magazine and

1009
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:47,070
crowdfunding or go to indy gogo of

1010
00:40:51,380 --> 00:40:48,450
course you can just go to the skeptic

1011
00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:51,390
zone TV and on the show notes for this

1012
00:40:55,970 --> 00:40:54,270
episode episode 350 you shall find the

1013
00:40:57,830 --> 00:40:55,980
link but I'm sure Google will take you

1014
00:40:59,660 --> 00:40:57,840
there anyway Jack what oh what a

1015
00:41:02,660 --> 00:40:59,670
wonderful endeavor I'm always pleased to

1016
00:41:05,090 --> 00:41:02,670
promote new and interesting ideas and

1017
00:41:06,980 --> 00:41:05,100
this one certainly sounds like one to me

1018
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:06,990
I can only wish you all the best and

1019
00:41:12,260 --> 00:41:09,720
folks why not pitch in and help and if

1020
00:41:15,590 --> 00:41:12,270
you feel so inclined you can even maybe

1021
00:41:17,180 --> 00:41:15,600
possibly be a contributor yeah exactly

1022
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:17,190
we're always looking for people to get

1023
00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:19,050
involved so if you think you'd fit the

1024
00:41:23,630 --> 00:41:22,020
bill and you'd be you know be interest

1025
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:23,640
in that sort of thing then get in touch

1026
00:41:27,650 --> 00:41:26,250
with us yeah thank you very much richer

1027
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:27,660
for having me on the show it's been gone

1028
00:41:32,090 --> 00:41:30,000
but for now jack skeletal the way from

1029
00:41:33,830 --> 00:41:32,100
sunny melbourne well mostly sunny will

1030
00:41:47,260 --> 00:41:33,840
sometimes I mean thank you very much

1031
00:41:51,860 --> 00:41:50,060
virtual skeptics is a weekly web show in

1032
00:41:54,170 --> 00:41:51,870
which we discuss the latest news in

1033
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:54,180
skepticism whether it's a new case of

1034
00:41:57,860 --> 00:41:55,650
spontaneous human combustion a

1035
00:42:00,080 --> 00:41:57,870
conspiracy theory the latest update on

1036
00:42:01,730 --> 00:42:00,090
the upcoming robot apocalypse tech news

1037
00:42:04,220 --> 00:42:01,740
for skeptics are the latest wacky

1038
00:42:06,590 --> 00:42:04,230
religious claim we cover it all we

1039
00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:06,600
record the show live as a Google+ on-air

1040
00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:09,270
hang out so join us and our host Brian

1041
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:11,070
Gregory for an hour of mostly

1042
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:13,740
intelligent talk every Wednesday at a PM

1043
00:42:19,220 --> 00:42:16,650
eastern US time watch acid virtual

1044
00:42:22,060 --> 00:42:19,230
skeptics calm and participate in the

1045
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,070
show on our hashtag virtual skeptics the

1046
00:42:29,650 --> 00:42:24,720
virtual skeptics it's like meet the

1047
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:34,850
here's may not spooky action at the

1048
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:40,420
yet so we are talking about skeptical

1049
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:41,930
activism here at skeptics in the pub

1050
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:43,280
tonight and I'm just asking a general

1051
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,440
question to people what do you think

1052
00:42:50,349 --> 00:42:47,119
someone could do at home to do their own

1053
00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:50,359
a little skeptical activism well first

1054
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:52,520
of all you've got to find a topic that

1055
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:55,609
you think is important I mean just being

1056
00:43:00,400 --> 00:42:58,640
skeptical for no reason I don't see that

1057
00:43:02,770 --> 00:43:00,410
support and sobbing I just kind of just

1058
00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:02,780
makes you annoying really but I mean if

1059
00:43:06,310 --> 00:43:03,740
you think it's something that's

1060
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:06,320
affecting society like you find these

1061
00:43:11,980 --> 00:43:09,050
people who are skeptical about global

1062
00:43:15,849 --> 00:43:11,990
warming then you point out the science

1063
00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:15,859
to them and when they come up with all

1064
00:43:20,830 --> 00:43:18,710
these strange statements you point out

1065
00:43:24,339 --> 00:43:20,840
why they are you know scientifically

1066
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:24,349
meaningless and a lot of this is just

1067
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:27,650
people rambling on about and not

1068
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:29,200
understanding what they're talking about

1069
00:43:35,410 --> 00:43:32,390
yeah because i'm at the thinking table

1070
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,420
who we got here is David and Richard

1071
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:37,520
okay guys you're going out to me not

1072
00:43:41,170 --> 00:43:39,530
again asking me a question what do you

1073
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:41,180
think people could do that was a bit of

1074
00:43:45,220 --> 00:43:44,089
a good Fozzie Bear there now what do you

1075
00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:45,230
think people could do is their own bit

1076
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:47,030
of skeptical activist enough at home on

1077
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:50,180
a small or a large scale whenever one of

1078
00:43:56,140 --> 00:43:52,250
my Facebook friends post a link to their

1079
00:44:00,609 --> 00:43:56,150
star sign I post a link and no replies

1080
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:00,619
to feel plates debunking of astrology oh

1081
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:02,810
now what do you reckon you could do on

1082
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:04,640
your own individual basis do a bit of

1083
00:44:12,220 --> 00:44:08,480
skeptical activism well the same is what

1084
00:44:16,339 --> 00:44:12,230
he said I you know always post links

1085
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:16,349
from from some of the more popular

1086
00:44:23,059 --> 00:44:20,130
stuff like dr. dady when when Equus mr.

1087
00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:23,069
Daly when you put stuff out I guess the

1088
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:24,150
burning problem is that you know that

1089
00:44:27,859 --> 00:44:25,950
kind of stuff can go though i'll ignore

1090
00:44:31,930 --> 00:44:27,869
you or can just go back and forth till

1091
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:31,940
three in the morning sometimes um yeah I

1092
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:35,849
mean it's you do it for what it's worth

1093
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:39,450
I mean but the people who you'll want to

1094
00:44:45,890 --> 00:44:42,569
listen da sta your friends yes those who

1095
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:45,900
don't dole unfriend you over here who we

1096
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:48,450
got here Carrie okay what do you think

1097
00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:49,650
would be something you could do on an

1098
00:44:55,370 --> 00:44:51,569
individual level is a bit of skeptical

1099
00:44:59,809 --> 00:44:55,380
activism share posts about scientific

1100
00:45:01,700 --> 00:44:59,819
skepticism and other on the other hand

1101
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:01,710
it may be like fat check before you

1102
00:45:06,650 --> 00:45:04,410
spray it you wouldn't want to share like

1103
00:45:09,469 --> 00:45:06,660
a wrong link or a bogus link or yeah

1104
00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:09,479
yeah hmm and what sort of area would you

1105
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,859
do that to what sort of thing would you

1106
00:45:15,979 --> 00:45:12,960
see on facebook where you go that cannot

1107
00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:15,989
stand vaccination global warming

1108
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:18,430
homeopathy there's three

1109
00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:21,760
I think I know some people who pose and

1110
00:45:26,970 --> 00:45:24,609
anti-vaccination things in that I find a

1111
00:45:30,270 --> 00:45:26,980
bit worried I think somebody will post

1112
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:30,280
things about battery supplements and

1113
00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:31,930
they're like oh yeah that's really here

1114
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:33,880
I forgot that yeah that's a minefield

1115
00:45:37,049 --> 00:45:35,920
isn't it okay thank you now you're

1116
00:45:38,819 --> 00:45:37,059
wandering around here in your bump into

1117
00:45:41,609 --> 00:45:38,829
jessica singer how are you everyone's

1118
00:45:44,190 --> 00:45:41,619
favorite corporate lawyer I'm extremely

1119
00:45:46,589 --> 00:45:44,200
well thank you may not we're talking

1120
00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:46,599
about skeptical activism this evening

1121
00:45:50,579 --> 00:45:48,550
and we're wondering on a personal level

1122
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:50,589
what sort of skeptical activism can

1123
00:45:54,030 --> 00:45:52,450
people do either on their own or in

1124
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:54,040
their workplace you know without causing

1125
00:45:59,400 --> 00:45:56,770
too much fuss oh oh well in the

1126
00:46:01,049 --> 00:45:59,410
workplace that's a hard one oh yeah

1127
00:46:02,069 --> 00:46:01,059
because because in the workplace you

1128
00:46:03,150 --> 00:46:02,079
know you don't want to make too much of

1129
00:46:04,980 --> 00:46:03,160
a pain of yourself but then again

1130
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:04,990
there's often someone flaunting some

1131
00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:08,410
wacky stuff yeah I think I think the

1132
00:46:14,579 --> 00:46:12,760
best you can do is read there's an

1133
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:14,589
article by Brian Dunning which is very

1134
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:17,170
good called what to do when a friend

1135
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:21,849
loves whoo and that gives some really

1136
00:46:29,069 --> 00:46:23,770
good tips for approaching people

1137
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,079
respectfully and gently when they have

1138
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:31,119
wacky views and that's actually very

1139
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:33,250
useful for people in the workplace

1140
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:34,480
because you want to get on with your

1141
00:46:38,099 --> 00:46:35,770
colleagues and you don't want to cause

1142
00:46:40,890 --> 00:46:38,109
World War three and people hold their

1143
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:40,900
views very daily so what would you think

1144
00:46:46,430 --> 00:46:42,250
would be another thing people can do on

1145
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:46,440
their own well if you're a beginner in

1146
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:49,119
so to speak I think the best thing you

1147
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:52,240
can do is educate yourself so go to

1148
00:46:58,440 --> 00:46:55,839
things like mind body spirit also known

1149
00:47:01,440 --> 00:46:58,450
as mind-body wallet and then if you if

1150
00:47:04,260 --> 00:47:01,450
you're if you know a bit more about

1151
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:04,270
skepticism and the the areas that we

1152
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:07,450
that we address there and you really

1153
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:09,670
really wanted to contribute then I think

1154
00:47:15,450 --> 00:47:12,640
you think of what your area of expertise

1155
00:47:17,490 --> 00:47:15,460
is and how you can contribute I mean I'm

1156
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:17,500
a lawyer not a scientist I'm not a

1157
00:47:25,859 --> 00:47:21,849
doctor so I can contribute by being a

1158
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:25,869
member of the organization and doing

1159
00:47:30,569 --> 00:47:27,630
practical things like being a secretary

1160
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:30,579
helping the organization run making sure

1161
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:32,170
all the legal obligations are complied

1162
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:33,910
with that kind of thing so there's

1163
00:47:38,579 --> 00:47:36,280
whatever your expertise i think there's

1164
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:38,589
always a way someone can contribute okay

1165
00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:40,960
and do get into too much of those

1166
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:42,790
late-night back and forth on the

1167
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:44,170
internet stuff do you get into that kind

1168
00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:45,520
of thing like dr. rate she does you know

1169
00:47:49,319 --> 00:47:47,020
dr. Reggie is up late going you're wrong

1170
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,329
you're wrong now I avoid that like the

1171
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:51,280
play I think that's a waste of time I

1172
00:47:56,430 --> 00:47:53,760
think I think I'm a lawyer so

1173
00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:56,440
negotiating and putting arguments to

1174
00:48:02,400 --> 00:47:58,510
people and putting my point of view to

1175
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:02,410
people is is my job I think the Internet

1176
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:08,010
is a not a good forum to do that and

1177
00:48:14,730 --> 00:48:11,650
it's also personally it's very annoying

1178
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:14,740
for me to see people argue things badly

1179
00:48:20,860 --> 00:48:16,880
and

1180
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:20,870
yeah over a moat emotionally dr. Rachel

1181
00:48:24,610 --> 00:48:22,490
just tends to bulldoze them with science

1182
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,620
there so that she is pretty good at it

1183
00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:27,200
but I guess years of practice she's

1184
00:48:30,670 --> 00:48:29,150
awesome and unfortunately I don't have

1185
00:48:34,180 --> 00:48:30,680
that scientific knowledge to be able to

1186
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:34,190
do that so I leave it to the experts

1187
00:48:41,110 --> 00:48:38,000
like dr. ohe okay and I know I sit on

1188
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:41,120
the sidelines and eat popcorn no we got

1189
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:42,890
he ever got a Victorian visitor to our

1190
00:48:48,580 --> 00:48:47,330
gathering tonight rosemary Skeets where

1191
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:48,590
do you normally hang with the rough

1192
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:50,330
Melbourne skeptics to you about it oh

1193
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:53,570
well Victorian skeptics at our monthly

1194
00:48:58,690 --> 00:48:56,210
venue and the restaurant strip of

1195
00:49:00,940 --> 00:48:58,700
Melbourne well that's pretty good are

1196
00:49:03,220 --> 00:49:00,950
not restaurant an Italian restaurant in

1197
00:49:04,420 --> 00:49:03,230
the big the big restaurant road and what

1198
00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:04,430
do you think people can do on the

1199
00:49:08,050 --> 00:49:05,960
individual level to be their own

1200
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:08,060
activists beard at work or online or

1201
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:09,530
something because you're bugbears

1202
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:11,510
homeopathy is enough it definitely is

1203
00:49:19,060 --> 00:49:16,090
I'm I'm an active member of my local u3a

1204
00:49:24,100 --> 00:49:19,070
University of the third age and there

1205
00:49:27,850 --> 00:49:24,110
are people in that tub mp3 a who swear

1206
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:27,860
by homeopathy so how do you how do you

1207
00:49:31,650 --> 00:49:29,570
do it in a nice way to let them know

1208
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:31,660
that they may be misleading themselves

1209
00:49:38,050 --> 00:49:34,970
well I have tried to explain to them the

1210
00:49:41,860 --> 00:49:38,060
mathematics behind it and also some of

1211
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:41,870
the the absurdities if they if you

1212
00:49:48,310 --> 00:49:44,450
explain the theory now i'm borrowing

1213
00:49:50,110 --> 00:49:48,320
from Peter Babbage here because I heard

1214
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:50,120
of him say before but you know if the

1215
00:49:58,110 --> 00:49:54,400
theory of homeopathy was valid then

1216
00:50:01,840 --> 00:49:58,120
chili peppers yeah if like killers like

1217
00:50:03,820 --> 00:50:01,850
chili peppers which cause you know your

1218
00:50:06,610 --> 00:50:03,830
body to swim they should cure high

1219
00:50:09,070 --> 00:50:06,620
fevers too much sugar will cause your

1220
00:50:11,620 --> 00:50:09,080
blood sugar to rise and maybe cause

1221
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:11,630
diabetes so lollies lollies ought to be

1222
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:13,930
a cure for diabetes

1223
00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:15,910
you know how do they normally go when

1224
00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:18,940
you float this to him ah they just i

1225
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:21,849
glazed their eyes glaze over but the

1226
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:25,770
ultimate one is the champ if arsenic

1227
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:29,200
will lead to death after they can

1228
00:50:35,010 --> 00:50:31,930
arsenic is poisonous than arsenic

1229
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,020
diluted astley gotta cure death oh I

1230
00:50:40,020 --> 00:50:37,359
guessed a lot logic follows with that

1231
00:50:41,549 --> 00:50:40,030
and do you get in long debates with them

1232
00:50:45,390 --> 00:50:41,559
or they just glaze over and move along

1233
00:50:48,030 --> 00:50:45,400
no no I am few years ago I organized a

1234
00:50:49,890 --> 00:50:48,040
course at my local you three I didn't

1235
00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:49,900
actually presented myself I lined up a

1236
00:50:53,730 --> 00:50:52,089
few members of the Victorian skeptics to

1237
00:50:57,089 --> 00:50:53,740
do the presenting including Steve

1238
00:51:00,089 --> 00:50:57,099
Roberts there was a course called

1239
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:00,099
critical thinking and one of the topics

1240
00:51:06,359 --> 00:51:02,710
advertised that would be covered with

1241
00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:06,369
homeopathy and there's one woman who

1242
00:51:11,970 --> 00:51:08,440
when she saw the list of topics said

1243
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:11,980
well let me know in advance which week

1244
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,040
homeopathy will be covered because I

1245
00:51:19,799 --> 00:51:17,440
won't come to that one because I believe

1246
00:51:23,549 --> 00:51:19,809
in it and I don't want to hear anything

1247
00:51:27,809 --> 00:51:23,559
that might make me doubt it so that was

1248
00:51:30,210 --> 00:51:27,819
rather telling and who we got here hello

1249
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:30,220
my name's Naomi no no I mean now what do

1250
00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:31,119
you think people could do on an

1251
00:51:34,049 --> 00:51:32,500
individual level for a bit of a

1252
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:34,059
skeptical activism we've we've heard

1253
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:36,130
some really good answers tonight well

1254
00:51:39,839 --> 00:51:37,930
really simple ways whenever your friends

1255
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:39,849
post something stupid on facebook as you

1256
00:51:43,650 --> 00:51:42,130
link them to snopes what's the most

1257
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,660
common one that you keep coming up with

1258
00:51:46,829 --> 00:51:45,760
that you have to keep linking to it's

1259
00:51:48,569 --> 00:51:46,839
always something different every day

1260
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:48,579
this is so many to choose from but

1261
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:50,170
smokes is covered most of them so it's

1262
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:52,720
very easy to find things very quickly is

1263
00:51:55,980 --> 00:51:53,890
there normally one like there's some

1264
00:51:57,450 --> 00:51:55,990
crazed killer in their area or something

1265
00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:57,460
and it's a generic thing from America

1266
00:52:00,539 --> 00:51:58,630
that they're posting that that's always

1267
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:00,549
a good luck sometimes you get the whole

1268
00:52:04,319 --> 00:52:02,559
chloroform perfume in the car park kind

1269
00:52:05,849 --> 00:52:04,329
of scare so it's actually very nice

1270
00:52:07,530 --> 00:52:05,859
being a skeptic there's so much left to

1271
00:52:22,339 --> 00:52:07,540
fear you only have to be afraid of the

1272
00:52:28,950 --> 00:52:26,040
not just dollars the hidden res on

1273
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:28,960
better of the art forger speaker Laura

1274
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:31,690
Nichols date monday the 13th of July

1275
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:34,450
2015 location The Daily Chronicle room

1276
00:52:41,099 --> 00:52:37,599
east hotel 69 Canberra Avenue Kingston

1277
00:52:42,750 --> 00:52:41,109
in the acct admission is free now you

1278
00:52:45,150 --> 00:52:42,760
don't need to forge any artwork or

1279
00:52:47,339 --> 00:52:45,160
certificates or counterfeit any money to

1280
00:52:50,069 --> 00:52:47,349
attend this interesting talk organised

1281
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:50,079
once again by the Canberra skeptics ww

1282
00:52:55,710 --> 00:52:53,530
Canberra cftc org a you worth

1283
00:53:03,540 --> 00:52:55,720
bookmarking they have interesting talks

1284
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:03,550
throughout the year hi this is Heidi

1285
00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:05,170
Robertson from the Northern Rivers

1286
00:53:10,620 --> 00:53:08,260
vaccination supporters we are a group of

1287
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:10,630
concerned citizens dedicated to

1288
00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:12,490
promoting good science and common sense

1289
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:15,369
in our region the far north coast of New

1290
00:53:20,809 --> 00:53:18,490
South Wales this area of famous for its

1291
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:20,819
natural beauty and relaxed lifestyle

1292
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:24,010
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

1293
00:53:28,829 --> 00:53:27,280
in Australia we are out to change that

1294
00:53:31,530 --> 00:53:28,839
by challenging the myths and

1295
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:31,540
misinformation and by providing good

1296
00:53:36,569 --> 00:53:33,730
evidence based information to the

1297
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:36,579
community we'd love for you no matter

1298
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:39,010
where you are in the world to join our

1299
00:53:49,260 --> 00:53:44,730
fight please visit our webpage at ww

1300
00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:49,270
nrvs info we also have a link there to

1301
00:53:56,819 --> 00:53:52,990
our facebook page tweet us at in our

1302
00:53:58,730 --> 00:53:56,829
faqs supporters that's vix and check us

1303
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:58,740
out on Wikipedia by searching for

1304
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:01,680
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1305
00:54:24,290 --> 00:54:22,070
thanks to the drinks Richard where's my

1306
00:54:25,730 --> 00:54:24,300
credit card Maynard um I gave it to a

1307
00:54:28,550 --> 00:54:25,740
lovely lady downstairs that i'll be

1308
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:28,560
joining fairly shortly uh-huh what we

1309
00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:31,770
are saunders hahaha well thank you

1310
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:33,420
everybody for listening to the skeptic

1311
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:35,280
zone it's been an interesting show lots

1312
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:36,720
of things that we didn't even expect

1313
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:38,490
that's right when the skeptics get

1314
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:40,290
together and it's the first thursday of

1315
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:42,750
every month at the crown hotel in

1316
00:54:47,450 --> 00:54:44,970
goulburn street in sydney and because of

1317
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:47,460
wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey bits you would

1318
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:49,490
have heard in that episode just gone

1319
00:54:52,910 --> 00:54:51,690
interviews manor did here tonight at

1320
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:52,920
skeptics in the pub which you haven't

1321
00:55:00,920 --> 00:54:55,650
even done yet I know and let me tell you

1322
00:55:03,950 --> 00:55:00,930
I was funny you will be and you were as

1323
00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:03,960
funny and I was insightful well it I

1324
00:55:10,220 --> 00:55:07,710
come on let's not stretch it now coming

1325
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:10,230
up are in coming weeks coming up in

1326
00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:12,890
coming weeks on the skeptic zone tam

1327
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:15,270
after Tammy i'm off to term again I'll

1328
00:55:19,790 --> 00:55:18,240
be reporting from Tam Las Vegas but on

1329
00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:19,800
next week's show I'm not exactly sure

1330
00:55:23,230 --> 00:55:21,630
what's coming up I guess I'll find out

1331
00:55:26,210 --> 00:55:23,240
when I hear it wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey

1332
00:55:28,670 --> 00:55:26,220
you know oh so thank you for listening

1333
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:28,680
to the skeptic zone and thank you

1334
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:30,330
everybody for sticking with a skeptic

1335
00:55:34,490 --> 00:55:32,640
zone for coming up to seven years or

1336
00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:34,500
eight years or something I've got 350

1337
00:55:39,140 --> 00:55:36,780
episodes like I said at the top of the

1338
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:39,150
show Maynard I think I need a rest look

1339
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:40,710
you know you get that first year out of

1340
00:55:44,210 --> 00:55:42,090
the gate was great you went through your

1341
00:55:46,550 --> 00:55:44,220
six years slump but now the last year

1342
00:55:48,290 --> 00:55:46,560
you have been back in your game I have

1343
00:55:49,850 --> 00:55:48,300
oh and another big thank you to

1344
00:55:52,610 --> 00:55:49,860
everybody who's been writing to me with

1345
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,620
them very warm well wishes about my

1346
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:54,480
recent surgery well I'm out and about

1347
00:55:58,370 --> 00:55:56,610
i'm very happy to be here and may not a

1348
00:56:00,260 --> 00:55:58,380
big thank you to you for coming by

1349
00:56:02,570 --> 00:56:00,270
hospital to pick me up and I was out of

1350
00:56:03,740 --> 00:56:02,580
my skull when you pick me up I think you

1351
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:03,750
see you were so out of it you didn't

1352
00:56:06,260 --> 00:56:04,890
notice that I was actually more out of

1353
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:06,270
it the new work which is probably good

1354
00:56:09,940 --> 00:56:07,890
thing you didn't know that it's a good

1355
00:56:12,110 --> 00:56:09,950
thing man out it's a good thing I

1356
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:12,120
usually have a gym last edit when I'm

1357
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:13,650
driving the boy swag and I find it it's

1358
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:16,200
safer for everybody now main ID you've

1359
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:17,520
been very busy of course with bunga

1360
00:56:20,690 --> 00:56:19,050
bunga I have indeed I've been doing some

1361
00:56:22,430 --> 00:56:20,700
stuff with Tim Ferguson just pop over to

1362
00:56:23,290 --> 00:56:22,440
Maynard comdata you or you might have

1363
00:56:24,850 --> 00:56:23,300
heard a little bit of during

1364
00:56:26,140 --> 00:56:24,860
so just come and have a listen and I

1365
00:56:27,730 --> 00:56:26,150
want to thank on behalf of Richard

1366
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:27,740
everyone who supports a skeptic zone

1367
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:29,510
financially with those micro payments he

1368
00:56:33,190 --> 00:56:31,520
really appreciates it I do they help pay

1369
00:56:35,350 --> 00:56:33,200
for my surgery now I do folks they help

1370
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:35,360
pay for the skipping zone okay my night

1371
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:37,070
I think it's time for run downstairs and

1372
00:56:40,990 --> 00:56:38,690
find my credit card and we can sign off

1373
00:56:42,370 --> 00:56:41,000
if you're depending on those micro

1374
00:56:49,690 --> 00:56:42,380
payments i would have loved the surgery

1375
00:56:51,310 --> 00:56:49,700
you would have got banks may not you've

1376
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:51,320
been listening to the skeptics own

1377
00:56:57,790 --> 00:56:54,890
podcast because of our website at wwc a

1378
00:57:01,240 --> 00:56:57,800
petting zoo TV for contacts an archive

1379
00:57:03,940 --> 00:57:01,250
of all episodes since 2008 and our

1380
00:57:05,850 --> 00:57:03,950
online store please support the skeptic

1381
00:57:09,010 --> 00:57:05,860
zone by following us on twitter at

1382
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:09,020
skeptic zone liking us on facebook and

1383
00:57:14,830 --> 00:57:12,650
leaving a review on iTunes you can also

1384
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:14,840
show your support by subscribing via

1385
00:57:20,770 --> 00:57:18,010
paypal for as little as 99 cents a week

1386
00:57:22,420 --> 00:57:20,780
the skeptic zone is an independent

1387
00:57:24,850 --> 00:57:22,430
production the views and opinions

1388
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:24,860
expressed on the skeptic zone and not